Marc Mathys - Uniting the Collective Beyond Right and Wrong Despite Disagreement
“There’s no grand conspiracy aiming to divide us—we’re quite adept at doing that ourselves with the belief system that ‘I’m right and they’re wrong.’” – Marc Mathys
Sarah’s got a question for therapists: how can we effectively engage with those outside our profession—even with people whose views we oppose—if we struggle to create space for nuanced thoughts and motivations within our own community?
There’s no simple answer to this. However, certain dialogues can both confront our biases and expand our understanding, helping us prepare for the broader societal conversations ahead. Sarah turns to Spiral Dynamics in times like this.
Marc Mathys sees Spiral Dynamics as a robust framework for such exploration. A highly skilled specialist in organizational transformation, Marc is also a certified professional coach, social entrepreneur, and holds multiple degrees, including an MBA in responsible management and leadership. As co-founder of Paradigm 21, he works with organizations to adopt agile distributed models and is a sought-after consultant and trainer in Spiral Dynamics and systemic change.
If you guessed that Marc and Sarah spent much of this episode delving into the trajectory of our collective, you’re right. What patterns are unfolding? What pathways lead to evolution? And what roles can we, as individuals, play to support systemic changes within our profession, families, and the wider world?
“The most compelling questions always start with ‘What if?’” Marc reminds us. What if we resisted the urge to slap binary labels of right and wrong on everything and everyone? “How do we organize ourselves in a way that meaningfully helps us achieve what we want?” he asks. “It’s not about more government. It’s not a political question.” And perhaps that’s precisely why it’s so difficult to answer. Humans gravitate toward neat, easily digestible solutions, only to be reminded—generation after generation—that there’s no such thing as a final fix.
For Sarah and Marc, Spiral Dynamics offers a framework to generate flexible ways of thinking and acting in our increasingly complex world. It also encourages us to reassess and let go of ideas that no longer serve us. But here’s the catch: none of us are off the hook. We’re individually accountable for systemic issues and the hard work of self-reflection. That’s the essence of healing. And maybe—just maybe—this time we’ll get it right.
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM)
GUEST CONTACT & BIO
Marc Mathys is an accomplished specialist in organizational transformation, certified professional coach, and social entrepreneur who holds multiple degrees including Engineering and an MBA in Responsible Management & Leadership. As co-founder of Paradigm21, he guides organizations towards agile, distributed models while serving as a sought-after consultant and trainer in Spiral Dynamics and systems change.
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